| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 12:21:32
Hi i have two brb's both brother and sister , I got them both in July and there set up both set up perfectly humidity is on 92% both housed in sep rubs and temps all recorrected now , and let them settle in for 9days instead of 7days..
On the 10th day i fed Bow and she took hers after 3mins of wiggling the rat pup in her face but was not a strike just slowly opened her mouth and takes it unless i wiggle the ratpup while she has bit then she throws a few coils around it. But she has never missed a feed since i have had her and i offer her a rat pup every 5 to 7 days.
How ever Mayhem he didn't want to know the rat pup i was there wiggling it for over 7mins with not a slightist intrest in the rat pup so i then got a knife and stabbed the ratpups head and reofferd it again to see if he would take it as i thought maybe the smell of ratpup brain he would take it but noo still no instrest so i put it in a feeding dish and left it in his rub over night the room was quite and dark but next morning still had not ate it so left it in there for another 3 hours until it hit 12:30pm and it still had not been eaten so took it out and binned it , then i have been retrying every 5 days and has refused to eat so by then he had refused a total of about 9 feeds during these 9feeds i had rubed the rat pup on mouse ferr , brainned it , scented it in tuna , offered him mouse pinky , took him for a drive in the car for 15mins and then offerd a ratpup still no intrest , warmed the ratpup ... 
So last 2 weeks i thought right he must have wasted over 15 ratpups and was getting very worried as he was loosing a tiny bit of weight so i rang the herp vet up expained to them over the phone and they told me to try assist feed him and if that dont work try one force feed or resort to live feeding but i don't wan't to live feed as i feel this is wrong and is not needed , so i got him in my hand and had a ratpup in a dish and assist fed him and success he bit and didn't let go so i gently put him back in his rub and he started to eat and i was extreamly happy that he had finally fed , but then 7 days later offerd a ratpup wiggle in front of him no intrest so brained it tried again but this time didn't wiggle it for a few mins kept it still infront of him and still nothing .. so i then assisted him and he ate but i can't keep assist feeding him as it is very stressfull for him so i need some help for him pleaseeeee  .
Also for Bow how do i get her to strike feed or will that come at a later stage when she is older as she was born in June and is a CB10. I'm not botherd about mayhem not strike feeding i just want him to feed on his own with out the help of being assisted as i say i think it is very stressfull for him.. |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 13/10/2010 : 21:30:53
quote:
Originally posted by Snakesitter
quote:
Originally posted by IncurableFlirt
You guys are sweet, but really, I think Snakesitter has offered the best advice by far.
::blush:: If so, it's only because you cover 95% of it yourself, and all I have to do is weigh in with the really esoteric/odd stuff!
 |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 11/10/2010 : 21:04:33
quote:
Originally posted by IncurableFlirt
You guys are sweet, but really, I think Snakesitter has offered the best advice by far.
::blush:: If so, it's only because you cover 95% of it yourself, and all I have to do is weigh in with the really esoteric/odd stuff! |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 11/10/2010 : 20:49:15
Fingers crossed for you, man! Follow the tips above and I'm sure it will go well. :-) |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 10/10/2010 : 20:11:20
Thank you both for excellent reply's..
@IncurableFlirt - I always offerd the prey in his RUB but no responce , i have tried out side his RUB about 2 to 3 times and still no responce ..
When i bought him he had fed 3 times as stated on his record but he was fed with the breeder leaving the ratpup in with him but i have tried that just leaving it in with him but no responce so no idea to why he had 3 feeds with the breeder but no feeds on his own with me ..
I have managed to find where to buy a live hopper and will be buying it on friday 15th , so going to let him get hungry for this week and with out handling also and see if that helps  i hope to put a new topic on friday saying HE ATE !! I really do hope it goes well as its making me a little stressed as well as i just want him to feed on his own and with no help like his sister..  |
| IncurableFlirt |
Posted - 10/10/2010 : 19:17:14
You guys are sweet, but really, I think Snakesitter has offered the best advice by far. As I mentioned in my post above, Marius went off food for almost three whole weeks. I tried feeding him only once every week and if he didn't take it, I left him alone.  My breeder friend (whom I got Marius from) mentioned that sometimes using a live feeder will spur them into having a feeding response, so we decided to try that. I was VERY relieved when he struck the fuzzy, curled tight...then proceeded to swallow after he had killed it. I'm not a big one for giving live food, but it certainly did the trick here.
Like you, I was worried that I would only be able to feed him live after that, but the next week, when his feeding day came, I decided to try a f/t. Marius reached out, captured it in his mouth, then proceeded to swallow. Though he didn't strike and coil, he still ate...and fortunately, to this day, he still does.
I do definitely agree with Snakesitter, though. Leave your guy be for at least a couple of weeks. Let him get really hungry, so that all he is thinking about is food.
I did have one other question, though. Are you feeding him in his enclosure, or are you moving him to a different tub to eat? If you are moving him, that could also cause him to be stressed and not want to eat....maybe try it in his enclosure...unless that's what you've already been doing.  |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 22:39:12
quote:
Originally posted by hiper2009
What happens if he does not take the live hopper ? And how long do I leave the prey with him for ? And if he don't eat I take it out and do I reoffer it again 5days later ? Or do I have to kill it as I won't be able to give it a home lol ..
Instinct is pretty strong with snakes. However, there are a few tricks we can pull to stack the deck in our favor.
One, don't offer the live meal until he has not eaten for two weeks. This will mean he's good and hungry. (It's even better if he has not even been offered food during that period.)
Two, offer the meal at dusk, just after the sun sets, which is when Brazilians are often most active.
Finally, turn down (but not off, as you have to see) the room lights.
Leave the mouse in for a good 30 minutes *after* he sees it before giving up. If he refuses, you may have to euthanize the mouse, as hoppers never seem to survive the night (at least for me). At that point, we will also have to start asking deeper questions about health and care before you got him...but my bet is he eats.
Does anyone have anything to add that I've missed?
Best of luck, |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 21:53:24
quote:
Originally posted by Snakesitter
Incurable deserves a heck of a lot of credit on this one too, she had spot-on info!
Your plan sounds good, just rememember two key points:
--Go for a hopper. A pink (which would be "the smallest") is too little to yield the movement that fascinates baby Brazilians
--Watch the *entire* feeding carefully, just in case he refuses and you need to pull the mouse out
Best of luck, and we looking forward to seeing a big post titled "HE ATE!!!!" :-)
I agree he/she has put great info and fast reply too !
What happens if he does not take the live hopper ? And how long do I leave the prey with him for ? And if he don't eat I take it out and do I reoffer it again 5days later ? Or do I have to kill it as I won't be able to give it a home lol .. |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 20:33:29
Incurable deserves a heck of a lot of credit on this one too, she had spot-on info!
Your plan sounds good, just rememember two key points:
--Go for a hopper. A pink (which would be "the smallest") is too little to yield the movement that fascinates baby Brazilians
--Watch the *entire* feeding carefully, just in case he refuses and you need to pull the mouse out
Best of luck, and we looking forward to seeing a big post titled "HE ATE!!!!" :-) |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 19:34:14
Thank you so much Cliff , You have been great help and your teaching me so much that i didn't know about BRB's , I will try my very best to source the smallest live small mouse and try to feed him for tuesday. |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 19:01:36
> It's a pleasure to compare them both together to make the reply stronger.
Ummm…thanks? ;-)
> But i won't turn to live feeding for her as there is no need for it
I agree. (I think we both did, actually. LOL.)
> For Mayhem…To be honest i don't want to offer a mouse to him as it will probs be hard to change him back to rats later on in life or is this not true.
You need to get the little guy eating, Ash. It does not matter *what* he eats at this point, as much as that he eats period. So offer whatever it takes to get there, and only worry about weaning him back to rats later.
Little Brazilians have an innate preference for live mouse hoppers, which is why I suggest that as a lead option.
> no where around me sells live rat pups or live rat fuzzies or live mouse fuzzys , they only do live small mice - live rats - live hamsters and so on so they are way to big i think
Yes, those are too big. However, stores have to get their live rodents from somewhere. Ask them if they can get two or three smaller mice in next week. Someone will say yes. If not, look for a new supplier. And/or, try your local herp club -- I guarantee someone will know a good rodent source, especially to help with a case like this.
> He is due a feed on tuesday shall i just skip his feed
I would, and see if you can get a mouse hopper.
> Or do i just carry on trying with the F/T Ratpups i have ?
I would hold off on those for now. Think of it this way: he has already told you he does not like them many times, and the more stressful experiences he associates with rats, the harder it will be to get him to eat them later.
> With Mayhem he is still active still drinking water fine and is only active at midnight
All good, normal signs.
Short answer: you have time. Find the right food, and nature should take its course. You can wean him over later. |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 18:16:26
Bump |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 15:17:46
Thanks for both of your replys ,It's a pleasure to compare them both together to make the reply stronger.
However i will warm up Bow's Ratpup to get a better feeding responce and wiggle it away from the hide so she can scent it out rather then letting the prey come to her. But i won't turn to live feeding for her as there is no need for it as she is eating fine.
For Mayhem i have a bit of a problem for live as no where around me sells live rat pups or live rat fuzzies or live mouse fuzzys , they only do live small mice - live rats - live hamsters and so on so they are way to big i think , To be honest i don't want to offer a mouse to him as it will probs be hard to change him back to rats later on in life or is this not true.
With Mayhem he is still active still drinking water fine and is only active at midnight but just has not got a feeding responce , If i can't get hold of a Live prey of the size he needs shall i just get a small mouse ? Or do i just carry on trying with the F/T Ratpups i have ? He is due a feed on tuesday shall i just skip his feed and make him more hungry or just try offer him a ratpup again but i don't think i want to assist feed again as its not right i don't think even though i am doing it correctly i just feel that it stress's him out big time and don't want him to be stressed but i don't think he is showing signs of being stressed..  |
| Snakesitter |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 23:32:28
Incurable had some great points.
Here are a few additional tips of my own
For Bow, your laidback feeder, the situation is not critical -- after all, she’s eating! However, to strengthen her feeding response, try these two tips.
A) Make sure the food is *very* warm (just “lukewarm” will not do), and
B) Make sure the food *moves* like a real mouse
If you’re not sure how to accomplish the second, go to your local pet store and watch a live mouse run around for a few minutes. There is a very specific movement pattern: they often sit in place sniffing or cleaning for a while, active in place if you will (simulate with light trembling) before moving a short distance. You can also elicit more forcible response if your snake thinks she is “ambushing” her prey. For example, set the prey up just around a corner from her (around the side of the hide or water bowl), and let her sense and then move to attack it.
For Mayhem, your non-feeder, it could just be a personal preference on his part. I have a yearling female that strongly prefers live mice. We argue periodically, and I wean her back over to F/T rats each time. But test this, as well as his general inclination to eat at all, by offering a baby Brazilian’s absolutely favorite food in the world: a live mouse hopper. I’m generally not a fan of live, but the risk is minimal with a small hopper, and if you’re still worried, you can always stun the mouse first (just be careful, as what we think is light force can easily kill -- also, if you’re going to offer stunned, it may be best to let him get a glimpse/whiff of live unstunned mouse first to “get him going”). Also remember to watch the entire process, as you should *never* leave a snake alone with live prey, especially a reluctant feeder. Anyway, once you have a snake used to the idea of eating on his own, he will often start doing so on his own, so this would not a permanent arrangement by any means. As for a long-term perspective, I know one US breeder that had a baby female that refused food for *three months* before she finally ate…so it does happen, and does not need to be fatal.
Good luck, and please keep us posted! |
| IncurableFlirt |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 18:48:18
Well, I am not certain as to why he may not be eating on his own. However, though you are against feeding live, sometimes that IS what it takes to get them into the feeding scene again. Marius went off food for almost three whole weeks, but when I offered him a live fuzzy, he struck and curled immediately. I thought for sure I was going to have to work him back up to f/t, but the next week I offered him one and he took it readily. Since then, I haven't had any trouble with him eating. My suggestion (though it may not be what you want to hear) is to try a live and see if this gets a feeding response out of him.
As for your girl, I would say you don't have to worry about her. Marius hardly ever strikes and coils with his food. He simply lunges, captures it, then begins the swallowing process. The only time I've ever seen him strike and coil was when I fed him the live pup.
If you are continuously having to feed your male, I would say that something is up. BRBs usually love their food. You might want to consider a different vet...one that is herp based and more knowledgeable. I dunno if I agree with your current one telling you to assist or even force feed. If done improperly, this could actually harm your snake. |
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