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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2011 : 11:02:21
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I thought id move this conversation here, so that mode wont get angry ;)
Ok, i had to scram last night, it was already 1 am when i wrote that message, its hard to sleep when youre excited about something :D
The 3 reasons for caution, very valid and i have thought about those a little, but now i really have to think.
First the hot/cold air that would be coming from the hose, i havent checked that yet, i only got the humidifier yesterday and i was thinking of trying it today. I was trying to be logical and wondered if the hot/cold air will travel so well to the viv, obviously does the mist either, but lets check anyway :)
Secondly the air exchange, i have smart store 50 for a starter viv (http://www.prisma.fi/tuotekuvat//large/67/wvwqby7dsvhu90p7.jpg) and i think its 50 liters, dont know about gallons. Anyway, im drilling airholes both sides of the viv, to the top. I was thinking of 2 rows of holes on each side. Also drilling the lid full of holes just to make sure the air flows. Im using a heating mat and basking light, because the viv is quite tall. If you have any suggestions about this, please inform :)
The third, germs. There are many people that i have asked about toxic free cleaning agents and so far i didnt get any answers. So, when i need to clean something without the fear of toxicity, i use vinegar. Thats natural, but needs to be rinsed off well. I was thinking of cleaning the humidifier every 1-2 weeks with that.
The thing is, i wont use any method that doesnt work, and luckily im on holiday now, so i can test every way with hygro/thermometers before even putting the snake in there :)
Well, theres couple of more things...
First, i was hoping that maybe the snake wants to be in sight if i can provide the humidity all around the viv and not only the box ;)
Also, the bowl of water partially over the heat mat, i dont think its enough. Im in finnish climate and the room humidity is really low, combined with freezing weathers :) But i will provide the water bowl none the less.
And then the feeding thing, live-feeding is illegal in finland, so dead food, of course :) I was a little shocked about 40-70 grams with 6 month old babies, i thought they would be bigger, thats why i bought the 50 liter box first :) Im guessing either fuzzies or hoppers for starters, i didnt know that with brb's people use the same rule as corns about the size of the food. Now im smarter :)
I thought i was well prepared for the kiddo, but i see theres a lot i havent considered.. |
http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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Invalid User
account deleted on request
277 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 12:02:52
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I just thought I would tell you about my brb setup as it may be some help to you.
My brb is 7 months old, and 70g and is now on rat fluffs/chubs.
She is keprt in a 9L really usefull box (rub) with a layer of damp moss as a substrate, a few hides, a fake plant and a flat shallow water bowl positioned so half is over the heat source. I use a heatmat under half of the rub. I have made about 20 air holes in the rub.
I have had no problems with humidity and it stays around 90-92%
My brb at this age is still pretty small and loves to curl up under the moss, hidden away and wont be moved up into a bigger rub for a long time yet.
Here are pics of her rub :) She is in the rub while these pics where taken so as you can see, they love to hide!
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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 13:34:13
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Thank you for sharing, those are always helpful :)
Last night i realized the box is too big, but i still have to use that, because all my other smart boxes are in use. Ill just have to decorate it a lot with covering plants so the snake wont be too scared or anxious.
I understood that the right humidity for BRB is 75-80%..? I have a heating mat covering the box 1/3 of the floor, and of course under the box not in it :)
I just did a research with the thermo/hygrometer and my house has 24 degrees (celsius) and 15 % humidity, so not humid at all..
I was thinking of using just paper towels for flooring at first, to keep the cleaning easy and harassment of the snake minimal :D Im not going to handle my BRB much, only the necessary. Of course in the beginning after being home for a week, i thought maybe i have to handle her some, so that she gets used to that. But my other snakes are very happy not being handled all the time, i want to do that with new ones too.
That moss looks pretty cool, but im afraid its going to rot or something if i use that :D How often do you change the moss, or do you just let it dry sometimes?
And one thing came to mind. How big are your vivs for adult BRB's? Whats the best size? I havent decided am i going to buy a ready viv or make one myself..
Im sure more questions will emerge later on :) |
http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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oakleyman18
Hatchling
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 13:43:42
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75%-80% is generally considered the norm for adults, however it is generally advised that hatchlings and juveniles have between 80%-90%, although +90% is just dandy if you can get it!
Temps wise, in the hot end you want to be aiming for 28/29oC, with the cool end going down to about 20oC, although how possible this will be in a cool place like Finland, I don't know 
In terms of housing- an adult will generally need 1.2m wW, 45cm H, 45cm D, as an average guide  They need more space than most snakes as they are semi arboreal. My BRB Jade goes climbing every night  It's amazing to watch!
Handling - Don't handle for the first week of getting him/her, let them settle in first. BRB's are notorious for being a litte "nippy" when hatchlings, so regular handling will calm him/her down to the point where they realise you aren't going to eat them, and they are happy to cruise about. If you aren't handling much however, be prepared for a few teethmarks...! |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Brazilian Rainbow Boa CB'10 "Jade"
1.0.0. Normal Cornsnake CB'00 "Camo" _RIP_
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender Cornsnake CB'11 "Amber"
0.0.1. Spider in the bathroom |
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Invalid User
account deleted on request
277 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 16:34:48
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Hi, to answer the moss question, I change it once a month. I actually need to change it this week for the first time since getting her!
The moss has been fine, no signs of mould or anything rotting. I spot clean if I see any mess and thats about it. I will then do a full clean out once a month and replace with fresh moss. |
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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 16:55:22
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The humidity percentage is good to know. I have only read about 75-80 and i dont recall them saying for adults only. So, thank you for informing me on that 90+% :)
That warm end i was thinking exactly 28-29 degrees so atleast im right about that :D And i dont think the colder end will be an issue ;)
I was thinking of long, high and somewhat deep viv for the adult when its needed. About 120 long, 80 high and 50 deep. The thought of having a lot of branches just tickles me :) And im guessing lot of branches would be nice considering exercise, other than handling wise.
My english might confuse people, even though im studying academic communication at the moment. Still somekind of finnglish, maybe one day ill learn :D I always let my snakes get used to their new surroundings for a week before handling them. After that i can start handling her little bit at a time, until she realizes im not going to kill her. I was thinking of doing that just enough to keep from being too nippy. By the way, does anyone have any good pictures of BRB's teeth? Just to be sure whats waiting....:D Or maybe bite pics?
I really have to take that moss in to consideration. Id like somekind of peat mixture as well..still not sure :)
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http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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Snakesitter
Rainbow Master
USA
2718 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 19:59:06
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Wow, I’m way behind on this thread!
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
I thought id move this conversation here, so that mode wont get angry ;)
Great call! I doubt anyone would have gotten angry, but I appreciate the fact you moved it a more appropriate threat where it would be easier for future readers to find.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
First the hot/cold air…wondered if the hot/cold air will travel so well to the viv, obviously does the mist either….
Good question, and not sure what the answer is. My guess though is that the longer the hose, the more moisture will condense on the hose surface rather than reaching the viv.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
Secondly the air exchange…im drilling airholes both sides of the viv, to the top. I was thinking of 2 rows of holes on each side. Also drilling the lid full of holes just to make sure the air flows. Im using a heating mat and basking light, because the viv is quite tall. If you have any suggestions about this, please inform :)
I have two suggestions here.
First, air exchange is *not* a Brazilian’s friend. It moves humidity *out* of the cage, when you want it *in*. As holes are not easily reversed, I’d start with minimal holes and slowly add them as needed.
Second, basking lights are also not great for Brazilians, as they tend to dry the air. It’s better to heat in other ways. This also reduces clutter in the viv, and avoids any need to take anti-burn precautions.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
I was thinking of cleaning the humidifier every 1-2 weeks with [vinegar].
A better choice than most options! If you go the humidifier route, I think frequent cleaning is a good idea.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
i was hoping that maybe the snake wants to be in sight if i can provide the humidity all around the viv and not only the box ;)
Low lighting will work better on that goal than high humidity. These snakes are rather secretive by nature, and tend to be most active during night.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
Also, the bowl of water partially over the heat mat, i dont think its enough. Im in finnish climate and the room humidity is really low, combined with freezing weathers :) But i will provide the water bowl none the less.
You are correct, it’s not enough. I live in Los Angeles, where it’s often warm but very dry. I have to supplement…though the humid hides always seem to stay damp enough.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
I was thinking of using just paper towels for flooring at first, to keep the cleaning easy and harassment of the snake minimal
I use paper towel myself, but it’s because I have lots of snakes and it’s quick to clean. If I had just one as a pet, I’d keep it on paper towel during quarantine, and move it over to something that retains humidity better afterward.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
That moss looks pretty cool, but im afraid its going to rot or something if i use that :D How often do you change the moss, or do you just let it dry sometimes?
If you use the right type of moss (sphagnum), it will not rot, just get soiled over time. As Louise noted, spot cleaning is essential. Do a smell test very two weeks; if it smells bad, replace it.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
Im not going to handle my BRB much, only the necessary. Of course in the beginning after being home for a week, i thought maybe i have to handle her some, so that she gets used to that. But my other snakes are very happy not being handled all the time, i want to do that with new ones too.
Oscar addressed this well. You will benefit from regular handling after the settle-in period, at least twice per week during the first six months. If he/she is not handled enough to become used to it, he/she may retain that nippiness for which baby Brazilians are famous…and it’s much less “cute” when the animal is six feet long. ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
And one thing came to mind. How big are your vivs for adult BRB's? Whats the best size? I havent decided am i going to buy a ready viv or make one myself.
Mine are four feet long by two feet deep by one foot tall, but you can get by with only three feet of length. More is always better though. As Oscar noted, babies are semi-arboreal, but this behavior diminishes as they age.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
I was thinking of long, high and somewhat deep viv for the adult when its needed. About 120 long, 80 high and 50 deep. The thought of having a lot of branches just tickles me :) And im guessing lot of branches would be nice considering exercise, other than handling wise.
The height may not be used much as he/she ages. If you want extra space, I’d urge you to consider longer or wider rather than higher.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
I thought i was well prepared for the kiddo, but i see theres a lot i havent considered..
That’s why you were smart to ask! Better a few extra questions than a sick new pet!
BTW, your English is fine!!!
All the best, |
Cliff Earle
Living Gems Reptiles
Premium Brazilian Rainbow Boas from a disease-tested facility
Website, Facebook |
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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 20:34:19
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First, that answer is hugely appreciated :)
And then...
I have to test the humidifier thoroughly before making any forward movements with this subjects, and every other way too :)
I understood that the heat mat should be on all the time, not just daytime..(otherwise viv wont stay warm) I know the light is drying, but i couldnt figure out any other way to get light to the viv. Also the light would be placed outside the viv, pointing down to a certain spot. But if it really gives me trouble, i will not use that :) And if its not so bright, maybe i get to see the baby every once in a while :D
BUT, you mean that heat mat is enough to keep the warmth in the viv?? Or i can use cable if thats better.
I made some holes, and figured out that maybe i need to test before i decide to make more, or close the existing holes (no worries, thats easy :)) I started measuring humidity and after 2 hours it is now 48 % and rising :) (started from 14%) There is a small box with coco husk soaked with water, and i must say, it looks promising :) Although i havent decorated the viv yet, i need to do that first in order to trust the numbers. I think plants (not real) and branches (birch) will hold moisture better than just the plastic box (?) The branches have also been treated correctly in case of bugs etc., and i will take those to sauna tomorrow. Its going to be 120 degrees for a few hours. These are all extremely important things, because i do want the best possible outcome in this. Also, i have Morelia viridis in my future and thats close to these conditions as well :)
I definitely dont want a sick snake :/
And the handling business :)
I think i handle my snakes approximately 2-3 times a week. So definitely couple times a week :) Hopefully that will make her comfortable with me and not doing nippy-acts :D
But one question about this too :) How long do you handle your snakes, when you do? 5 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour?
Im going to have to think about that big viv some more, and also the flooring material. I like that orchid thing you see people using sometimes. Is that any good?
Oh, and new question came to mind :) Do you feed your snakes directly to the viv or do you use feeding boxes? Im thinking food to the viv? |
http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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Snakesitter
Rainbow Master
USA
2718 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 22:18:12
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Happy to help.
Yes, the undercage heating should be always on, and place under one end of the viv. For lighting, I would suggest a florescent bulb rather than a heat lamp. Outside is indeed better.
Properly installed and regulated undercage heating should be plenty warm enough, provided you have heating for the room as well. So long as your snake has one warm area to retreat to when needed, he/she will be fine.
Good call on taking it slow with the holes!
Coco husk works fine for moisture. Not sure how fast it molds though.
Smart to decorate first. A real plant will actually help you with humidity, it just takes more work, and makes cleaning harder.
Handling two or three times a week is fine. From your description, I thought you meant every two or three weeks! ;-) I handle most of them for about five minutes a session, but occasioally go longer. Too many snakes to do it regularly though.
Orchid bark, you mean, for substrate?
I feed in viv whenever possible. I almost never get bitten reaching in to grab someone, so it must be working OK! |
Cliff Earle
Living Gems Reptiles
Premium Brazilian Rainbow Boas from a disease-tested facility
Website, Facebook |
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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 11:03:07
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I had a test run with the humidifier and i think its really good. The mist is almost fog-like and not "watery" at all. The machine pushes chilly air out, but i think that is because i used cold water. I think i can fix that by adding hand warm water. And have to see if it starts pushing out warm air when it has been on for a while.
One other thing, the mist is constant, not every once in a while, like i thought. Also that can be handled with timers :)
I have been thinking of maybe using the humidifier with the bigger viv in the end, rather than this one, because this is still quite small and theres a range of problems that might occur. Gladly i started these test drives early :)
YES! Orchid bark, thats it :) How could i forget such an easy word.. That looks beautiful and natural, but like always im worried about mold and such. Well, ill start with the paper towels and have to figure it out later. Main issue is now the warmth and humidity :)
My handling is good then :) There are some people who like to handle their snakes every day for their own pleasure and i dont do that. I think snakes are not cuddly animals like cats and dogs, and i have those to cuddle if i need to :D I believe snakes are happier without constant handling. But im not as strict as many of my "countrymen". Everyone has their own way, im happy with my snakes being happy and used to me touching them when needed :)
Please dont take this the wrong way, im not judging anyone about their handling :)
I heard from the breeder, that she (its a girl :)) has been eating mice and rats. I think its good because i heard stories about BRB's not eating rats well, when they had mice all their life and all of a sudden changed to rats. I dont know if even i can make out what that sentence says :D Hopefully you'll get the idea :)
About 4 hours today when the mat has been on and the coco husk box in the viv, its up to 63 % humid. Unfortunately i cant keep my plants alive as it is, so im guessing they wouldnt thrive in viv either :D
Ill try to get the viv decorated today, so i can post pictures of that as well :) |
http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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Invalid User
account deleted on request
277 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 12:00:55
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On the handling subject, I tend to handle Sissy a few times a week just to give her a check over and also before I weigh her on feeding day. She is not at all snappy, has never tried to bite me or even struck at me, infact she is one of the most placid snakes I own!
On the feeding, Sissy started off on mice and I switched her over to rats no problem. |
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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 14:00:30
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Lets hope my kiddo will be calm too, hoping she isnt very anxious. Although i dont mind that in the beginning, but if it continues that to me indicates a problem. But im getting way ahead of myself, so well have to see :)
I just realized that i have a display aquarium, for show use, i used to have piranhas there. Its 140cm long, 50 high, but then the depression hit me hard :D Its only 35 cm deep :(
Ill have to use that for something else than BRB's viv. Maybe for a skinnier snake ;)
I was thinking of customing a plexiglass-lid for that with locks and everything, how inventful :) Its time to get it out of storage, no point in keeping good equipment in hiding!
Viv is almost decorated, ill probably be putting pics today :) |
http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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Snakesitter
Rainbow Master
USA
2718 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 18:40:57
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@ Louise: funny, isn’t it, how Brazilians have such a “bad attitude” rep, but are usually so placid?
@ Tuija:
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
I had a test run with the humidifier and i think its really good. The mist is almost fog-like and not "watery" at all. The machine pushes chilly air out, but i think that is because i used cold water. I think i can fix that by adding hand warm water. And have to see if it starts pushing out warm air when it has been on for a while.
One other thing, the mist is constant, not every once in a while, like i thought. Also that can be handled with timers :)
As a suggestion, I would place a temp measurement device (thermometer, recorder, whatever works for you) in the hose-to-viv connection area so you can get a feel from what the air temp runs over time. So long as it stays in the normal thermoregulation range for a Brazilian (not too chilly and not too hot), you should be fine -- but testing is the only way to be sure.
Timers should work fine, once you figure your humidity (and therefore duration) needs out.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
About 4 hours today when the mat has been on and the coco husk box in the viv, its up to 63 % humid. Unfortunately i cant keep my plants alive as it is, so im guessing they wouldnt thrive in viv either :D
Was this with or without the humidifier assisting? LOL on the plants, I have a black thumb with them myself.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
My handling is good then :) … Please dont take this the wrong way, im not judging anyone about their handling :)
I think everyone followed. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
I heard from the breeder, that she (its a girl :)) has been eating mice and rats. I think its good because i heard stories about BRB's not eating rats well, when they had mice all their life and all of a sudden changed to rats. I dont know if even i can make out what that sentence says :D Hopefully you'll get the idea :)
It made sense, and it is indeed a good sign.
quote:
Originally posted by Tui
Viv is almost decorated, ill probably be putting pics today :)
Looking forward to them! |
Cliff Earle
Living Gems Reptiles
Premium Brazilian Rainbow Boas from a disease-tested facility
Website, Facebook |
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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 19:09:49
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Okay! Im back in business, and humidity is currently 85% (and that is without the humidifier, only water bowl and hide with coco husk. I couldnt find a suitable hose, so ill have to buy that and then test but so far this is looking good as it is :) The viv is also fully decorated, and pictures below...
I already had to change the mat to a more powerful one, the thermometer shows only 25 degrees but on the bottom of the viv is definitely warmer. That viv is quite tall and the thermometer is not placed so low, but almost exactly the height of the hide (about 4 inches from the floor). Any suggestions how to make the viv warmer? Or should i just move the thermo/hygrometer? :D I cant use bigger mats, it now covers almost half the floor.
Okay the pictures :)
The thermo/hygrometer
Looking down to the viv..
Viv from the front side and lid up :)
The viv, lid closed
And overall view..
And now, suggestions? :)
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http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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Snakesitter
Rainbow Master
USA
2718 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 20:05:55
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Very nice!
I would move the thermometer down to floow level, as this is where your snake will spend most of her time.
Are the sticks and plants secured (or, will they be)? Your snske will try and use them for climbing support, and an unexpected fall would be nice to avoid.
Other than that, decor is not my area of expertise, so I'll leave that to the other regulars! |
Cliff Earle
Living Gems Reptiles
Premium Brazilian Rainbow Boas from a disease-tested facility
Website, Facebook |
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Tui
New Member
Finland
76 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 20:15:50
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I thought so too. Meaning the movement of the thermometer, im guessing then it will show truthfully what the situation is, right where the snake is :)
Everything is placed firmly :) Branches are through the plastic and they will not move, other than in human hands :D Also plants are being attached with ehm...i dont know the word. The rubbery sucky thing :D and also through the plastic to make sure. Hopefully i get to see some climbing :)
11 days to go....drat :D |
http://finlegion.webs.com
1.0.1 Pantherophis guttatus, CB FIN
0.0.1 Morelia viridis "Sorong"/Poss HY, CB SWE
0.1.0 Epicrates c. cenchria, CB FIN
0.0.1 Acanthoscurria geniculata CB FIN
0.0.2 Hymenopus coronatus CB FIN
0.0.1 Grammostola pulchra CB HUN
0.0.1 Ephebopus cyanognathus CB SWE
0.0.2 Avicularia versicolor CB SWE&GBR
0.0.1 Avicularia geroldi CB GBR
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Topic |
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Viv setup questions continues..
